tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post6000160561582753130..comments2024-03-18T17:28:44.693-07:00Comments on Rondam Ramblings: If the shoe fitsRonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-19543741127297690772007-10-04T13:29:00.000-07:002007-10-04T13:29:00.000-07:00I would say that a nation has responsibilities tow...I would say that a nation has responsibilities towards individuals to the extent that individuals are <I>wronged by law</I>. I would say, for example, that to the extent that the United States are still discriminating against blacks <I>in law</I>, the nation has a responsibility to fix such discrimination, and the people who were wronged have grounds to ask for reparations given the injustice denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-63958661927229335672007-10-04T12:07:00.000-07:002007-10-04T12:07:00.000-07:00Am I getting through now?You've been getting throu...<I>Am I getting through now?</I><BR/><BR/>You've been getting through all along. I just think your position is untenable. Note that I didn't say <I>wrong</I>, just <I>untenable</I>. (I think you're (mostly) wrong too, but that's another discussion.) The vast majority of the people in the world believe in national agency, and so to be effective politically you have only two choices: 1) try to Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14719368822663798864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-89475561763262267532007-10-04T06:45:00.000-07:002007-10-04T06:45:00.000-07:00It saddens me that all the time I spent trying to ...It saddens me that all the time I spent trying to make things clear for you has gone to waste. Your interpretation of my reply is superficial and completely missed the gist of what I was trying to say.<BR/><BR/>I did not say that the United States did not invade Iraq in the generally accepted sense this phrase is spoken. What I did say is that you can only take this abstraction so far.<BR/><BR/>denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-45933107218250044792007-10-03T20:35:00.000-07:002007-10-03T20:35:00.000-07:00[Ron] [N]o one kidnapped you (or your ancestors) a...<I><BR/>[Ron] [N]o one kidnapped you (or your ancestors) and shipped you to Slovenia in shackles.<BR/>[Denis] How do you know that?<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>My spies are everywhere.<BR/><BR/><I><BR/>[Ron] So the United States didn't invade Iraq?<BR/>[Denis] Strictly speaking, yes, that's quite correct!<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Not necessarily to say that you are wrong, but you do realize that most people on Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14719368822663798864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-5112826085682522922007-10-03T15:34:00.000-07:002007-10-03T15:34:00.000-07:00If you really want to use human-level logic wholes...If you really want to use human-level logic wholesale on the slavery and reparations problem: here is an attempt.<BR/><BR/>Suppose we have a guy named Stan and a guy named Mohasu. Mohasu is poor and the guy named Stan pays him $500 to sell him a kidney. (Africans were sold into slavery by their opponent Africans.) Half of the kidney dies as part of the transplant (losses during transport), but denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-4314387163461571932007-10-03T14:53:00.000-07:002007-10-03T14:53:00.000-07:00Yes. I also see its flaw: no one kidnapped you (or...<I>Yes. I also see its flaw: no one kidnapped you (or your ancestors) and shipped you to Slovenia in shackles.</I><BR/><BR/>How do you know that? Just because my genealogy isn't as easy to track down just on the basis of the color of my skin, doesn't mean that something like this didn't happen to my ancestors.<BR/><BR/>My standpoint is, it doesn't matter. I was born in Slovenia as a free person, denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-3639661505337885362007-10-02T15:53:00.000-07:002007-10-02T15:53:00.000-07:00See my logic here?Yes. I also see its flaw: no on...<I>See my logic here?</I><BR/><BR/>Yes. I also see its flaw: no one kidnapped you (or your ancestors) and shipped you to Slovenia in shackles.<BR/><BR/><I> It is people who do things, not nations.</I><BR/><BR/>So the United States didn't invade Iraq?<BR/><BR/><I>You may not realize it, but you are being fundamentally irrational if you ascribe human characteristics to, and require human Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14719368822663798864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-75851740728306985332007-10-02T12:58:00.000-07:002007-10-02T12:58:00.000-07:00But people today living participated in Jim Crow,B...<I>But people today living participated in Jim Crow,</I><BR/><BR/>But people who would have to pay for reparations are those who are nowadays of working age, which means that they were at most in their early twenties when the last of the segregation laws were overturned.<BR/><BR/>Conversely, segregation laws would have directly affected only black people now older than 48 or so, with most of the denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-13812807898016855992007-10-02T10:45:00.000-07:002007-10-02T10:45:00.000-07:00But no one today living enslaved anyone today livi...<I>But no one today living enslaved anyone today living!</I><BR/><BR/>But people today living participated in Jim Crow, and people living today continue to participate in institutionalized discrimination against blacks (e.g. the disparity between the sentencing guidelines for crack and powder cocaine). But it doesn't really matter because your observation, while true, is irrelevant. The crime Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14719368822663798864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-23045341858802597472007-10-02T07:06:00.000-07:002007-10-02T07:06:00.000-07:00Note that Medved starts out by tacitly assuming th...<I>Note that Medved starts out by tacitly assuming that the only possible motive someone might have for focusing on America's bloody past as a slave-holding nation is that they "want to discredit the United States and to deny our role as history’s most powerful and pre-eminent force for freedom, goodness and human dignity" as if this is the most likely reason for anyone to be paying attention to denis biderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02662743799740973736noreply@blogger.com