tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post5101164836189540793..comments2024-03-18T17:28:44.693-07:00Comments on Rondam Ramblings: Secularity and teleologyRonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-18571437825689504052020-05-29T23:02:39.976-07:002020-05-29T23:02:39.976-07:00@XO:
> Much respect to Ron...
Thanks :-)@XO:<br /><br />> Much respect to Ron...<br /><br />Thanks :-)<br />Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-1241757877193049762020-05-29T21:56:20.752-07:002020-05-29T21:56:20.752-07:00Typical materialistic take on eternity in above co...Typical materialistic take on eternity in above comments. Where's the 'unpleasant prospect' with spending an eternity with loved ones.XOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086790167388907039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-46153864067148868852020-05-29T21:48:41.510-07:002020-05-29T21:48:41.510-07:00@Luke, my apologies :).
And your point is well ta...@Luke, my apologies :).<br /><br />And your point is well taken. Very common (both sides) across the Internets. If we're in disagreement over world-views, at least correctly understand the world-view you disagree with. There's some 'smart' folks out there invoking straw men without losing a bit of credibility over it (a layman speaking to laymen). Brings into question if they XOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086790167388907039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-47475732818320551162020-05-29T14:06:11.594-07:002020-05-29T14:06:11.594-07:00Not a shot at you. FYI, the following context may ...Not a shot at you. FYI, the following context may be helpful:<br /><br />> <a href="http://blog.rongarret.info/2017/11/a-bug-in-kjv.html?showComment=1511390365589#c7726491571833712839" rel="nofollow">Ron</a>: But -- and this is really important, and gets back to what I mean by "I can let it slide" -- to me these arguments are fundamentally the same as arguing over whether Han shot Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-81391387927363032882020-05-29T12:19:57.129-07:002020-05-29T12:19:57.129-07:00@Luke
Not sure if that was a shot at me? If so, y...@Luke<br /><br />Not sure if that was a shot at me? If so, you basically just stated the same thing I did in my post.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />XOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086790167388907039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-83580424280291604732020-05-29T09:07:23.688-07:002020-05-29T09:07:23.688-07:00Taking verses out of context is dangerous:
>&g...Taking verses out of context is dangerous:<br /><br />>> Moses said, “Please show me your glory.” And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The LORD.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. <b>But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”</b> And theLukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-60107564235595693382020-05-28T11:44:40.922-07:002020-05-28T11:44:40.922-07:00@Publius, @Ron
A bit late but, couldn't resis...@Publius, @Ron<br /><br />A bit late but, couldn't resist here. Quick clarification about seeing the face of God (and Ron, this is not the 1st exegetical error you've made on this blog).<br /><br />One does not necessarily have to die to see the face of God, Paul understood this...<br /><br />1 Corinthians 15 50-54<br />2 Corinthians 12, 2-4<br />1 Thessalonians 4<br /><br />The above XOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15086790167388907039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-88638675101668483902019-06-13T23:20:37.261-07:002019-06-13T23:20:37.261-07:00The spirit of the staircase is strong tonight.
&g...The <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier" rel="nofollow">spirit of the staircase</a> is strong tonight.<br /><br />> "I never knew you."<br /><br />You never read my blog?<br />Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-14463435039047221302019-06-13T23:11:49.284-07:002019-06-13T23:11:49.284-07:00Even better:
> "I never knew you."
...Even better:<br /><br />> "I never knew you."<br /><br />You never answered my calls.<br />Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-2260347786425877802019-06-13T23:04:51.059-07:002019-06-13T23:04:51.059-07:00> "I never knew you."
To which I wou...> "I never knew you."<br /><br />To which I would reply: so all that business about you being all-knowing was a lie after all? What else did they get wrong about you?<br />Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-58017732234888112432019-06-13T22:33:57.904-07:002019-06-13T22:33:57.904-07:00Matthew 7:23
> I figure you need God himself t...<b><a href="https://tinyurl.com/y5vrckvb" rel="nofollow">Matthew 7:23</a></b><br /><br />> I figure you need God himself to tell you. Would that do it?<br /><br />@Ron:<br /><i>I don't know. I think it would depend a great deal on what he had to say.</i><br /><br />Expect to hear this:<br /><br /><b>"I never knew you."</b>Publiushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00647613579979908182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-17539172705320332152019-05-17T15:57:11.018-07:002019-05-17T15:57:11.018-07:00> I don't really know what would constitut...> I don't really know what would constitute a "theory of the world"; can you point me to what you think best exemplifies such a thing, both in your own writing but also out there in the world?<br /><br />https://blog.rongarret.info/2003/07/hello-world.html<br /><br />https://www.legacyoflewis.com/2019/03/a-bottom-up-defense-of-christianity-not_30.html<br /><br />> why should Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-8542976369064007882019-05-17T15:01:10.213-07:002019-05-17T15:01:10.213-07:00> Jimmy Weiss gets my respect because he partic...> Jimmy Weiss gets my respect because he participates in this process. He's put a theory out there. He's invited criticism. He's answered that criticism. You have never done that. I've repeatedly invited you to write up your own theory of the world and present it for criticism. You've repeatedly refused on the grounds that it's too hard, would take too long, whatever. Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-10139103950150647462019-05-17T12:30:10.888-07:002019-05-17T12:30:10.888-07:00> I personally try to stop if I hit the point ...> I personally try to stop if I hit the point where I can no longer extend the charity of coherence which approximately matches my best achievement of coherence.<br /><br />Well, this is one of your problems. The way the scientific game is supposed to be played is this: one person advances a theory and presents it for criticism. Then someone else criticizes it. Then the proponent of the Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-76235835060650408932019-05-17T11:13:43.920-07:002019-05-17T11:13:43.920-07:00@Ron (2/2)
> Incoherence is forgivable. Failur...@Ron (2/2)<br /><br />> Incoherence is forgivable. Failure to explain is not.<br /><br />Plenty of Christians eschew god-of-the-gaps reasoning. That it might be popular is as much interest as the plenitude of shite atheist blather. Humans want to have things explained in their mind and will grasp at <i>whatever</i> resources are available to do so.<br /><br />> (Note too that not all Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-60480856191799781862019-05-17T11:13:27.856-07:002019-05-17T11:13:27.856-07:00@Ron (1/2)
> I was exploring the consequences ...@Ron (1/2)<br /><br />> I was exploring the consequences of taking Jimmy's Wager *on its own terms* and seeing where that led. And where it leads is that I reject Jimmy's wager *even if* God is everything that Jimmy says He is and will do everything Jimmy says He will do.<br /><br />Ok; it seems to me an instance of "garbage in, garbage out". I personally try to stop if I hitLukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-18205373574799250572019-05-17T10:30:48.163-07:002019-05-17T10:30:48.163-07:00> So what were you doing (in saying "Right...> So what were you doing (in saying "Right now it seems like a diabolical trap to me."), if you weren't engaged in making sense?<br /><br />I was exploring the consequences of taking Jimmy's Wager *on its own terms* and seeing where that led. And where it leads is that I reject Jimmy's wager *even if* God is everything that Jimmy says He is and will do everything Jimmy Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-73977849421390053322019-05-17T08:07:01.838-07:002019-05-17T08:07:01.838-07:00> > It simply makes no sense.
> I could ...> > It simply makes no sense.<br /><br />> I could not agree more.<br /><br />So what were you doing (in saying <a href="#c2638868140608563281" rel="nofollow">"Right now it seems like a diabolical trap to me."</a>), if you weren't engaged in making sense?<br /><br />> > > I can't tell a coherent story about God *at all*. I have never even *heard* a coherent Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-72106561546355521552019-05-16T23:02:35.720-07:002019-05-16T23:02:35.720-07:00> It simply makes no sense.
I could not agree...> It simply makes no sense.<br /><br />I could not agree more.<br /><br />> Do we have a 100% coherent story about how the laws of nature work?<br /><br />Nope. But we're converging (though we will never fully converge).<br /><br />> Now, we read books which are hundreds, maybe thousands of pages. You talked of reaching books a million pages long. And then you talked about what Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-30936609786111614702019-05-16T15:20:01.533-07:002019-05-16T15:20:01.533-07:00> Yes, but a hypothetical God does not instill ...> Yes, but a hypothetical God does not instill in me any real fear, and I don't really care about hypothetical fear.<br /><br />Ok, in that case you have provided no reason to believe that God would spring a <a href="#c2638868140608563281" rel="nofollow">"diabolical trap"</a> on you and thus I see it as a dead hypothesis. It simply makes no sense.<br /><br />> I can't tellLukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-58428553514956793532019-05-16T14:27:36.250-07:002019-05-16T14:27:36.250-07:00> > If God is real …
> I thought that wa...> > If God is real …<br /><br />> I thought that was presupposed for the hypothetical.<br /><br />Yes, but a hypothetical God does not instill in me any real fear, and I don't really care about hypothetical fear.<br /><br />> Can you tell a coherent story of God needing to entrap you in order to carry out his diabolical plan?<br /><br />I can't tell a coherent story about God Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-87315172766944837392019-05-16T11:41:32.822-07:002019-05-16T11:41:32.822-07:00> If God is real …
I thought that was presuppo...> If God is real …<br /><br />I thought that was presupposed for the hypothetical. And so when you wrote <a href="#c9022639530737768201" rel="nofollow">"I don't believe in God, remember? I can't be duped by a non-existent thing."</a>, that seemed to be a red herring for purposes of discussing the hypothetical.<br /><br />Now, "If God is real", then why would you Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-65153171956734255982019-05-16T07:55:53.092-07:002019-05-16T07:55:53.092-07:00@Unknown:
> You are the first person I have re...@Unknown:<br /><br />> You are the first person I have read framing infinite reward as a bad thing.<br /><br />Yeah, I think the idea may actually be original with me. Spread the word! <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA" rel="nofollow">It's a trap!</a> :-)<br /><br />@Luke:<br /><br />> Ron: No, I'm not. I don't believe in God, remember? I can't be duped Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-13839033884077145242019-05-16T07:10:55.400-07:002019-05-16T07:10:55.400-07:00> Ron: Right now it seems like a diabolical tra...> <a href="#c2638868140608563281" rel="nofollow">Ron</a>: Right now it seems like a diabolical trap to me.<br /><br />⋮<br /><br />> <a href="#c4377901733007774394" rel="nofollow">Luke</a>: You're worried about being duped<br /><br />> <a href="#c9022639530737768201" rel="nofollow">Ron</a>: No, I'm not. I don't believe in God, remember? I can't be duped by a non-existent Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18395549142176242491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-73462328176442925942019-05-16T01:46:40.683-07:002019-05-16T01:46:40.683-07:00>The appeal of an infinite afterlife depends a ...>The appeal of an infinite afterlife depends a lot, I think, on a failure to grasp just how big infinity is.<br /><br />You are the first person I have read framing infinite reward as a bad thing. Very thought provoking! I've never really thought about infinity being bad...or good. I think in this respect, I find Hinduism beliefs intriguing. Re-living life over as another animal actually Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17980374353282920857noreply@blogger.com