tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post1417995730356034102..comments2024-03-18T17:28:44.693-07:00Comments on Rondam Ramblings: Is it Lisp or is it me?Ronhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-71657132516196263272011-07-04T15:09:53.429-07:002011-07-04T15:09:53.429-07:00Thanks for the kind words. And I haven't comp...Thanks for the kind words. And I haven't completely given up on Lisp. I still use it for personal projects, and I'm still hoping to be able to use it for real work again some day.Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-76171670942006470392011-07-04T14:51:00.153-07:002011-07-04T14:51:00.153-07:00I'm a bit disturbed that You have given up on ...I'm a bit disturbed that You have given up on Lisp at the same time as I've given up the other languages in favor of Lisp.<br /><br />I see Lisp as a power tool that enables me to be more productive.My problem is the really big programs where brute force and manpower doesn't cut it anymore. This is where I look towards Lisp for more leverage.<br /><br />Best Regards, Your work is an John Rohde Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01092096415370425690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-61287426438820877012011-04-30T23:00:02.077-07:002011-04-30T23:00:02.077-07:00I know too little about MCL's UI builder, writ...I know too little about MCL's UI builder, writing DSL compilers in Lisp or the like, so I guess it's possible. I still don't see anybody writing the next killer DB engine in Lisp.<br /><br />I don't think the .h files are that much of a hassle/DRY breakage. In case of a smart IDE, it's a code generator that manages this for you, and you could always include the .c/.cpp file A_flj_https://www.blogger.com/profile/13123052099912825525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-62562758936707307332011-04-29T20:13:48.705-07:002011-04-29T20:13:48.705-07:00you might like to go see
www.civilized.com/files/l...you might like to go see<br />www.civilized.com/files/lispbook.pdf<br />(for a section on what Lisp is good for) and you might want to<br />see www.civilized.com/programming.html<br />as well.gary knotthttp://www.civilized.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-55571190850946331622011-04-27T23:06:27.134-07:002011-04-27T23:06:27.134-07:00> would you code a UI widget toolkit in Lisp, r...> would you code a UI widget toolkit in Lisp, rather than in C++?<br /><br />Absolutely. Macintosh Common Lisp had one of the best UI builders ever. In fact, it still hasn't been surpassed in some respects 25 years later. Today I do quite a bit of UI hacking in CCL, which is directly descended from MCL. Lisp totally rocks for UI work.<br /><br />> I don't see the guys in the Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-85865997588302645312011-04-27T21:38:35.339-07:002011-04-27T21:38:35.339-07:00Idunno ... would you code a UI widget toolkit in L...Idunno ... would you code a UI widget toolkit in Lisp, rather than in C++?<br /><br />I do agree that using Lisp, or Lisp-like langauges, increases your productivity significantly. But this increase in productivity comes at a cost. I don't see the guys in the automotive industry deploying Lisp interpreters to their highly constrained embedded systems, for instance. Nor do I see Oracle A_flj_https://www.blogger.com/profile/13123052099912825525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-67190631544253416432011-04-27T19:10:47.391-07:002011-04-27T19:10:47.391-07:00@Ken:
> There are things I can do with C on a ...@Ken:<br /><br />> There are things I can do with C on a bit by bit basis that I would be hard-pressed to find an alternative for in LISP.<br /><br />You can twiddle bits in the Lisps as well.<br /><br />And only people who have never written a non-trivial application call it "LISP", unless you're talking about that thing from the 50's.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-63985004530630538662011-04-27T10:05:52.712-07:002011-04-27T10:05:52.712-07:00@Ken: Not quite.
First, I didn't really give ...@Ken: Not quite.<br /><br />First, I didn't really give up. I kept beating on C++ until after many years I was able to produce this:<br /><br />https://github.com/rongarret/Ciel<br /><br />Second, it wasn't hard because it was different, it was hard because it was different in a very particular way that was not (and is not) a good impedance match to my mindset. For example, C++ actuallyRonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-22515749558059670002011-04-27T08:20:44.757-07:002011-04-27T08:20:44.757-07:00It seems to me that basically what you said up the...It seems to me that basically what you said up there in your second point is that you tried to learn other languages, it was hard because it was different, and you gave up. I would like to think I read that wrong, so please correct me.<br /><br />As for the whole memory management and detail oriented nature of C/C++ and even Java, it really has its advantages. There are things I can do with C on Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172164706725378745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-70708689268045857402011-04-27T05:10:20.195-07:002011-04-27T05:10:20.195-07:00You come to appreciate Lisp when you face problems...You come to appreciate Lisp when you face problems with creation of solution space and it's search. Until then C/C++ will do great ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-60193434794459456882011-04-26T18:09:35.517-07:002011-04-26T18:09:35.517-07:00You are freaking brilliang, but that aside...
per...You are freaking brilliang, but that aside...<br /><br />perhaps it's not a matter of YOU or LISP, but of YOU *AND* LISP. The merit may not be strictly yours, or of LISP, but you make a good team.<br /><br />You know, like when we say of film actors "the relationship works, there's good chemistry".<br /><br />But that's not the only possible team. And others may be LISP rubenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18118301025014168644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-22809759600558258102011-04-26T17:51:50.395-07:002011-04-26T17:51:50.395-07:00"the fetid cesspool that is Perl"! LOL! ..."the fetid cesspool that is Perl"! LOL! Love it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-89962127595634525422011-04-26T15:20:42.035-07:002011-04-26T15:20:42.035-07:00Hi Ron, thanks for posting this. Although I'm ...Hi Ron, thanks for posting this. Although I'm a regular reader of The Endeavour, I was expecting some answer to the post (I couldn't do it: my "biggest" pieces of Lisp are just to draw <a href="http://www.mostlymaths.net/2009/11/external-rays-lavaurs-algorithm.html" rel="nofollow">Lavaurs chords</a>, which could be done in C or whatever and a toy ray-tracer based on pg's in Ruben Berenguelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271991635456932663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-29846588354775401472011-04-26T14:10:07.608-07:002011-04-26T14:10:07.608-07:00> First of all, congrats for the blog, here'...> First of all, congrats for the blog, here's one more follower ;-)<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />> Could you elaborate on what were the basic pain points when trying to do the port?<br /><br />Not really. It was a long time ago and I was not directly involved.<br /><br />> please tell us some stories about these Google geniuses and their impossible accomplishments.<br /><br />http:Ronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11752242624438232184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-92213878257433608122011-04-26T14:06:45.856-07:002011-04-26T14:06:45.856-07:00Good article. But please tell us some stories abou...Good article. But please tell us some stories about these Google geniuses and their impossible accomplishments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5592542.post-35911605001176012011-04-26T13:55:05.014-07:002011-04-26T13:55:05.014-07:00First of all, congrats for the blog, here's on...First of all, congrats for the blog, here's one more follower ;-) On the topic, the RA planner must be an incredible piece of work (I've read about it, mostly from the book from Nau, Ghallab and Traverso). Could you elaborate on what were the basic pain points when trying to do the port? I wrote a Graphplan+SAT (blackbox-like) planner in C++ once and then later a hierarchical Ricardo Herrmannhttp://www.herrmann.eti.brnoreply@blogger.com